An interview with Anna Khodorkovskaya
Anna, you seem to alternate between two major themes in your work: the world of ads/marketing and the part of the economy artists are confronted with in their careers. How and where do does two themes meet in your life?
Anna, you seem to alternate between two major themes in your work: the world of ads/marketing and the part of the economy artists are confronted with in their careers. How and where do does two themes meet in your life?
As
someone’s living in today’s present, I am forced to interact with the world of
marketing on daily basis. In other words, every minute of our life is being
evaluated, bought, and sold back to us. Our lives and ultimately we are just commodities
on different markets. For several years, I worked in graphic design and at some
point stopped working having in mind this conclusion: “Don’t buy into the
package”!
The exact same thing happens in the art world.
The exact same thing happens in the art world.
Following
my decision to dedicate myself exclusively to art, I have along the way
encountered the same problem: “the empty shell” presented as true “force”, wrapped
up in its own fancy clothes.
For the viewer, the artist is a magical, powerful,
important being, someone who is revealing new meanings to the world. But in the
art system, the artist is a weak link; he or she is a product, which might or
might not become part of the “circle of power”. And most of the time, an
artist’s career depends a lot on that. Therefore, the artist and her/his art,
seen as only mare commodities on the art market, are two recurrent themes in my
life.
Beside
their purely artistic endeavor, the artist has to align him/herself to other “commodities”
(other artists): he/she needs to update their CV’s, they need to participate
into prestigious exhibitions, to win awards, send out applications, and do many
other things that keep the artist at that specific level of corresponding
commodities. These observations were the trigger for some of my projects, in
which I tried to analyze these processes. Also, I wouldn’t want to call my art
as being a critical one. For me, all these projects represent research and an
analysis attempt; they are all questions that I raise to myself and to the
world.
Some of your works are exhibited or performed online.
Are there any differences in relating to these works as an artist than to the
physicality of the works exhibited in a gallery?
In theory, all
artworks that can be seen on internet could be physically exhibited in an art
gallery as a photo-video documentation, as artefacts, video captures or video stills,
installations, etc. There are plenty examples of such type of exhibitions in
the history of performance and conceptual art. Nevertheless, the art contained by
these works exists only on the internet space. They belong to the online world,
the virtual media. Therefore, exhibiting these artworks within the space of a
gallery has an educational dimension more than anything else.
The same thing,
only in reversed, happens with the „the material artworks”. The world of painting,
of graphics, or object, and so on, is alive; and internet serves exclusively as
a platform for their representation. On the other hand, there are artworks that
have the potential of being functional in both worlds. For instance, in the
project ArtStreamShop we, the artists, work both with material artworks (and
not only) and the real spectator of the performance, and at the same time there
is an online version of this project, of which the main elements are the live
streaming and the website. Also, another aspect I want to highlight is that the
online projects lack any kind of pragmatic feature; they are not created with
the purpose of being sold to the public, unlike the artworks exhibited in a
gallery. Generally speaking, they don’t communicate in any way with the viewer
in this direction. Sometimes the product itself is not present. Of course,
there can always be a solution, an artist can print a screen shot and sign a
limited edition of it. But, it is not the case with ArtStreamShop, it’s simply not
at all part of the initial project.
In ‘CakeMakers’ and ‘Jedes Stück 1 Euro!’ you question
the usual economy of art and position artists not only as the people who
produce the works, but also the ones who sell them, eliminating the usual
middleman. How does this affect an artist’s independence and, also, their
livelihood?
An artist
is so much more than just the creator of his or her artworks. Besides creating
works of art, the artist is a whole other persona: manager, secretary,
photographer, designer, curator, art critic, his own superstar and his own
spectator. But all these roles are played behind the curtains; the viewer only
sees the artworks on the gallery walls.
That’s
why I feel comfortable with this theme “an artist’s own salesman” or the artist
being his own sales manager, as a logical completion of all the other personas.
In this project, the theme was that we (the artists) were buying and selling
the artworks from and to each other, becoming also our own buyer, using “comic”
prices, hence 1 Euro per piece. The price, in this situation, is just a symbol,
what is fundamentally important for me is the performance, the happening, the
way in which all the participants discover new questions that they need to
consider. The rest of it, including money, is just mare instruments.
In ‘Art Stream Shop’ you host live presentations of
artworks, during which people anywhere can watch and buy them. In what ways
does the approach of the public towards the artworks change than in a regular
gallery or museum setting? Do people engage more with the artworks this way, or
are there certain geographical regions that have a higher interest in
watching/buying than most?
Well,
first of all, ArtStreamShop is a performance. It is a performance in which we ironize
the artworks, the prices, the whole process of buying and selling artworks, “we
make fun of ourselves”. People can physically assist the performance or they
can watch everything online. The project started as a joke, a sort of trial to
play out the role of the art dealer in a teleshopping system. After a while
though, the project has become more and more interesting to me, as I started to
see it as means for research of the various problems we confront during the
process of creating art. For instance, most of the artists cannot watch at ease
or with humour the prices of their own artworks. They are not ready to experiment
and so they chose to avoid the “public fall of the price”, in front of their
collectors and gallery owners. Most of the times, this kind of attitude is very
much connected with the place where the artist lives and works. For sample,
this project was better welcomed in Vienna than in Moscow, although our
performance is well known in both locations. In 2015, I did the same
performance in Cluj-Napoca and I have to say that there were some discomfort
and reticence I could sense coming from the artists there, regarding this type of
experiments. However, the artists who eventually participated into this
performance, have always, since then, stayed close to my heart.
The same story happens
with the galleries – only a few of them are willing to become scene for a
performance that deals with art sales, avoiding the questions regarding taxes.
And that happens because people want to be clear, because there is a blur
concerning the message – is it a shop or an art gallery? Is it just a commodity
to sell or is it art? Do you pay taxes for it? But in this case the artwork
doesn’t belong to a certain category and that is what triggers the frictions.
That’s why I always have to clarify things up: ArtStreamShop is a performance.
The most
important aspect in the performance is the emotion experienced by me and my
fellow artists. During the act, the audience doesn’t understand quite clearly
what is going on: is it a joke? Can you really buy artworks? On one hand, we
really do present a situation that invites you to buy artworks; on the other
hand, everything else looks suspicious. But I often heard from the people who
had decided to participate into my performance and buy the artworks that they
had a very interesting experience. The piece they bought becomes special to
them and their attitude regarding art changes. So, in a way, there’s been
created a contact, a common ground, if you want, between the artists and the
buying audience.
Did working as an art manager for several years change
your perspective regarding your own artworks?
I’ve
recently understood that there are people who think of me as an art manager, which
is a mistake. Perhaps this happens because I integrate the logistics of my work
into my art. If the secondary activity of an artist occupies a considerable
amount of time, then it is not secondary at all, it needs to be acknowledged
and studied. It becomes important, so I have to take it into account. This
specific aspect is the key-subject in some of my works. The project might take
the shape of an institution, but it is not mandatory to actually be one (do not
buy into the package). For instance, my project Reality Raum Residenz remains
an artistic project, even though many parts of it consisted in real
residencies. And the situation is quite similar with ArtStreamShop. The reason
behind my research on a certain format can be different. For example: everybody
around me was sending out applications, trying to win different residencies.
So, I started to apply as well, but, as most of the time happens, I wouldn’t get
accepted anywhere. The whole thing grew more and more interesting to me – what
kind of a beast is this, “artistic residency”? And so this is how I started
Reality Raum Residenz, as an artistic experiment which lasted for 3 years.
Or
it could work the other way round.
One
of my last projects is Cheese Art Award, which takes place both in Moscow and online. The project itself has a long story; I had various reasons to create
it, among them the Strabag Art Award I received in 2014. It somehow became necessary
for me to understand the meaning of an art award. To me, choosing a winner out of other worthy
artists seemed somehow like a mystical process. And this vagueness triggers a
deeper and more careful thinking.
In
the same way, by visualizing and integrating my organizational activity into my
art, the process and the logistics do not turn me into a manager. Obviously, in
projects like these, there are a lot of problems and situations I need to deal
with: working with other artists, design, communication, and so on.
But
there are other aspects in the work of a real art manager which I don’t include
in my artistic project because they are not of interest to me. When I start
working on a new project, I focus on what I find to be interesting, on the
idea, on the concept, on the process, and the technique. That’s why, being part
of my artistic projects, art management influences my projects the same way as
the other elements influence them. But
if I work on a piece on which I don’t use this tool, than I try not to think of
this aspect at all.
How much are you interested in collage as an artistic
and political propaganda? Mixing of mediums and images can create a deconstructed
message?
Well,
collage is indeed one of the most direct and natural ways of artistic
expression when it comes to communicate messages towards society, no matter if
we speak about coded messages or direct ones. There are so many types of
collage – graphic collages, cinematographic or photographic
montages, news collage... But I’m far from being didactic, both in life and in
art. Although nowadays world demands us more and more aggressively to be
articulated, I often find it difficult to formulate a rough opinion regarding
different issues and even more difficult to clearly verbalize that opinion.
Anna Khodorkovskaya, Pink Dyslexia, Acrylic on paper on canvas, 120 x 80 cm, 2012
If
I want to say something loud and clear than I do it without illustrating that
in my works. I like to create artworks that don’t contain toughness in them. To
me, creating a work of art is more like a process of trial and error.
How much are you interested in economics in your
works? How can an artist create a bridge between his/her artistic practice and
the very empirical part of his/her life?
I
don’t think this bridge requires a special construction. It is a natural
process, because creating my artworks takes place at the same time with living
my life. They co-exist and they are inseparably linked one to the other.
Ideally speaking, the work of an artist should comprise also the materials, the
work, the time spent on it, and the learning process which was required. But our
world is not ideal. When I work on something that is not related to my art, I
am trying to see that as an experience, not only as an exchange of time/work
versus money. In life, everything is important. And in art, one can see the
marks of your past and present time.
That is very interesting; it is a life journal, a coded autobiography. I can see this more in other’s artist’s work. When it comes to my my own art, the message reveals to me after a while.
That is very interesting; it is a life journal, a coded autobiography. I can see this more in other’s artist’s work. When it comes to my my own art, the message reveals to me after a while.
From the series Confusion, Mixed media, approx. 46 x 22 50 cm, 2015
Specially, in „Art & Everything” series, you seem
to have invested a lot of emotional part in it. How much is heart and how much
is question in this?
These
artworks are new, therefore it is difficult for me to discuss about them. To
me, they probably translate into a deep reflection of today’s art and of art,
in general. The emotional part is extremely important to me. To me it’s an
experience almost impossible to translate into words, sensations, associations,
memories, feelings... The emotional involvement of the audience is wonderful. I
can never build a „professional” wall between my feelings and my works. I
probably still try to understand the meaning of art. What the hell am I
actually doing? And most likely, the more I struggle to get a clear
comprehension of what I do, the more I miss it and turn it into some sort of
living creature, impossible for me to grasp.
Are
you interested in simple life? Does it have any concrete importance?
But what is the meaning of a simple life? It seems to me that my
life is quite simple. I believe destinies are different, in the same way circumstances are different; on one hand, there is this frame, this convention we call the everyday life and, on the other hand, there is a lot of content, always different, that fills in and gives substance to it. But life itself
is quite straight forward: whatever happens to us from birth to death.
And so, where do you get the ideas for your work? Do
you imagine the project as a whole or is a series triggered by a certain
artwork that you’ve worked on?
I usually conceive the projects as a whole, as a
concept, especially those “participative”, in which I integrate other people. More
precisely, I think about a structure, a skeleton or let’s say a set of “rules”.
In the process, the content is getting fuller, is growing. Sometimes I create
these ideas together with my friends, in a way, I make use of a collective mind
and often the result doesn’t match my initial concept. I find this gap between
my initial concept and the final result very interesting. All these changes are
nothing but a part of the creation process.
On the other hand, the process is reversed when I create my so-called „plastic” artworks. They are usually results of my experiments. I create one artwork, then another, then they might form a series or not. They might influence my future artworks, but this will be confirmed to me only after some years, when I’ll be reviewing my old albums.
On the other hand, the process is reversed when I create my so-called „plastic” artworks. They are usually results of my experiments. I create one artwork, then another, then they might form a series or not. They might influence my future artworks, but this will be confirmed to me only after some years, when I’ll be reviewing my old albums.
—Anna Khodorkovskaya
© Mobius Gallery
Anna Khodorkovskaya participated in Moscow Biennale of Young Art, Garage Museum of Contemporary Art - Moscow, Kьnstlerhaus-Vienna, Austria or RLB Kunstbrьcke-Innsbruck, Galerie Rьdiger Urlass-Frankfurt am Main, CCA Sokol, Moscow, Museum of Moscow, Troutman St. Ridgewood-New York among others. She was awarded in 2014 with Strabag Art Award International.
She lives and works in Vienna.
She lives and works in Vienna.
